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Post by mightypig on Jul 2, 2024 16:04:53 GMT
So people are unhappy about the recent skill gain changes on infinity. So I started to play with the formula of the hybrid skill gain and changed it a bit. The blue line is my new values and the yellow is the original curve.
I am not sure what the complains were with the skill gain but I asked around in the freedom chat and people seem to like this curve more than the original curve.
If anyone here has suggestions about the curve, lmk since I got a python script which can generate the curve easily.
For the people who don't understand what is happening above. The new curve should make it so the more difficult something is to create the higher the skill gain is. But the lowest the multiplier will go is 1 (before it was 0.9). Besides this the drop off is a bit faster so at higher levels you will gain less.
Heres the code if you want to play with the curve yourself: https://gist.github.com/MightyPiggie/15c3876f5984f5e71b4548ef79da3b3c
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Post by lyssi on Jul 2, 2024 16:34:06 GMT
Like I said in Infinity chat in-game, blue line good. From what I'm seeing it addresses my only complaint with what the curve had been, without completely eliminating the early gains people were so enamored with.
- Achaena (inf)
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Wurmhole
Villager
Posts: 43
Ingame Name: Darquan
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Post by Wurmhole on Jul 2, 2024 16:58:52 GMT
This is a great version of the hybrid. Fixes the only issue I could see with it.
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Post by Dominikk on Jul 2, 2024 17:31:18 GMT
That looks good we will add this next week
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Wurmhole
Villager
Posts: 43
Ingame Name: Darquan
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Post by Wurmhole on Jul 2, 2024 18:27:58 GMT
Thank you 1000 times Sklo! It's crazy how attached us Wurmians can get to our characters in a short period of time and this gives back meaning my my little pixels. Thank you!
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jarodd
Villager
Ingame Name: Jaroddempsey
Posts: 47
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Post by jarodd on Jul 3, 2024 5:35:49 GMT
idk how it worked exactly, i did 1050 casts immediately prior to the removal of the old system and got .67 levels then in the new system i did another 1050 and got .64 levels so didnt see a major change their but in the old system 1050 casts prior to the time i got .67 levels got me .82 levels and for the 5-8 levels prior to that it was between .8 and 1 levels. So idk what the reason for the huge drop in xp was around level 88 or so but changing to normal xp rate seems to not made a difference. Unless the patch was actually active before the restart. In any case I'll be happy to see the improved system reapplied in the coming patch, i just wish my vacation didnt end after this week xD
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Post by sencha on Jul 3, 2024 11:51:24 GMT
I've calculated the integrals of these functions, and it may seem that new skill system will give 10% less gains on average. But people do not behave like random number generator to receive average gains, so in fact this new system will give 11% more skill when spamming low difficulty actions (so high skills will grow faster) and the same x4 if you hit the 0 skill check - so actual gains will be even higher than old one, which as I see it was the reason to turn it off.
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triluch
Villager
Posts: 25
Ingame Name: Triluch
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Post by triluch on Jul 3, 2024 14:29:19 GMT
Default multiplier is AFAIK 1x if your action is a success, so a flat line when action "power" is above 0 (power depeneds on difficulty of the action, tools, your own skill, buffs, etc + some random factor to all that). So with the curve tweaked by mightypig you should never get less skill than in standard system - at worst case scenario (so when action is too easy for you - due to your skill, tools, buffs, your action "power" close to like 70+) you will have the same gain as on old servers. To max your skill gain you want to do stuff that is harder, on the verge of failing action (that's what 0 power means). I like that kind of system, because it is kinda like real life - if you pratice something that you never tried before, but you make it work (or almost make it work) this is the point when you learn a lot. If you practice something that you are experience with, it doesn't have so much benefit. Also higher gains on short-lived server like Inf makes sense - you have to work from 0, so it's compensation for that. I also saw someone saying in chat that it encourages to have fun with skills that they normally wouldn't try, and having fun is what the game is about, right?
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Post by sencha on Jul 3, 2024 15:43:05 GMT
I don't like two things about this system. First, it promotes very strange behaviors such as using QL1 skilling tools and materials, or receiving wounds. That's the opposite of realism, if someone had to work with terrible tools, he'd barely learn anything (except how to hurt himself with terrible tools and make terrible products), or nothing at all. Second, the action difficulty is never revealed in game, so you have to use some third party tools to calculate what must be done to actually get to the middle of the power scale. Randomized gains efficiently neutralize attempts to analyze that in game.
So there's quite a few unexpected behaviors, which is the literal definition of bugs. Imo the better option to make Infinity have higher skill gains is just increased flat rates.
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Wurmhole
Villager
Posts: 43
Ingame Name: Darquan
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Post by Wurmhole on Jul 3, 2024 23:09:49 GMT
Boosted flat rates would be nice too. In WO I was always trying to champion a flat skill gain and I pushed really hard for the WU flat skilling, before it was released. But if I recall, one of the reasons for Infinity was to help draw WO players into WU, since there has been a lot of decline in WO and major dissatisfaction too. Most WO players are very used to that difficulty sweet spot system, so this hybrid curve was a good way to lure them in and essentially help all the new characters on this server get up to speed quickly. People coming straight from WO will fit right in with the skilling and people from WU will get a nice surprise when doing fast action spamming, when they are in the difficulty sweet spot and see a nice 4x skill tick (on top of the normal 5x).
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Post by sencha on Jul 4, 2024 4:01:18 GMT
The familiar skilling system might help acclimatize those who know and like it. But on the other hand its drawbacks that I described above are why at least some WO players switch to WU. If Infinity had a flat rate, then switching from more complex system to more simple would be easy for WO vets, and the opposite - WU players coming to Infinity will not have to study the hybrid system (I suppose they don't know how it works, because other WU servers generally don't use it).
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Post by danarkking on Jul 11, 2024 7:20:29 GMT
the first thing I think looking at this is the ways to increase difficulty at higher levels. Love it.
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Post by Dominikk on Jul 15, 2024 8:00:50 GMT
Feedback on the new curve pls
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Wurmhole
Villager
Posts: 43
Ingame Name: Darquan
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Post by Wurmhole on Jul 19, 2024 13:25:12 GMT
Hey, I've been so busy enjoying life on Infinity that I forgot to come back and post here. I find it really great, how we can either skill away like we always did before on the original servers and get great results, or put in the extra efforts to fine tune our skilling, to shoot for that sweet spot on the curve and pick up even more skill. As someone who's time to play comes in waves, it's so beneficial to have a way to maximize gains when I am here, if I'm willing to put in that extra effort. If I'm just in the mood for good old casual play and focused on projects, I don't suffer a near complete lack of gains, like it would be in WO. I think this hybrid method really covers all the bases.
The only negative I see is the need for carrying around a second set of some key tools that help fine tune our ability to hit the sweet spot when working with the different material types and their difficulty levels. But needing more tools does open up more opportunity for merchants to sell new wares.
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Post by sencha on Jul 20, 2024 5:58:21 GMT
Feedback on the new curve pls Back to what it was before it was turned off I guess. Don't see differences, and probably couldn't if changes are within 10% like Mightypig has offered. Also can't tell what you are trying to achieve about gains. |
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